In the Media - Understanding Your Rights in the Workplace

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Mmatsheko Mosito: Central African Time. Thank you very much for staying with us as we look at the workplace and workplace-related matters. Knowing your rights at work is one thing; knowing what to do when those rights are challenged is a completely different conversation, right? Whether it is retrenchment, a disciplinary hearing, unpaid wages or a salary dispute, many South Africans may not know where to start, what the deadlines are, how to get legal help or, most importantly, what that legal help will cost. These problems often have a severe knock-on effect, if you will. We are going to unpack this and look at some examples, such as losing a job and how that can quickly lead to debt, housing problems and pressure on family relationships. The consequences are quite devastating. Let us unpack this with Michael Visser, who is joining me in his capacity as Head of Services at My AI Lawyer. Oh my goodness, My AI Lawyer! Michael, tell us more about that. I could not wait to ask you.

Michael Visser: Thank you so much. Thank you, Mmatsheko, and thank you to your listeners for tuning in. Yes, My AI Lawyer is an initiative that was started quite a few years ago. At that time, it was about democratising access to justice, which we can hopefully unpack a bit later. But yes, we are excited. It is a new field within law not competition for lawyers, but a way of providing access to justice to everybody who needs it. So yes, exciting times.

Mmatsheko Mosito: Very exciting times indeed. In my introduction, I spoke about all these terrible things that can happen in the workplace, such as unpaid wages and salary disputes. These are very serious issues. How can people better understand the law and how it can protect them? At the end of the day, as employees, we want the law to be on our side. How can people better understand the law and protect themselves when it comes to their legal rights?

Thank you for the question. It is quite interesting to look at the statistics from My AI Lawyer. We have something of an advantage because we provide access 24/7, and we can see what bothers people and when it bothers them. I think the common thread is that many of us know when something feels right or wrong, and we are usually correct about that. The difficulty lies in translating that feeling into whether something is legal or illegal, and then understanding the rights and responsibilities that flow from it. We see this particularly in labour matters. Interestingly, between two and five o’clock in the morning, people are awake and asking questions: “What is happening with my employer? Something happened to me. I feel that something was unfair. My employer was unpleasant to me.” It is keeping people awake. The challenge is translating that into an actionable process. You know something is wrong, and ordinarily you would reach out to someone—an attorney, if you can afford one, which is another problem, or a family member. The question then becomes: “I know I was wronged, but what do I do now?” Fortunately, with My AI Lawyer, you can establish whether something has gone wrong and what steps to take next. Do I simply resign tomorrow and hope for the best? Do I write something to my employer? It is about translating your feelings into legal language, if that makes sense.

Mmatsheko Mosito: Absolutely. I also think that, at some point in the conversation, we really need to look at the role of technology and how it is making legal information easier to access. I know that this is a big part of My AI Lawyer. Let us talk about some of the most common legal questions that people bring to My AI Lawyer.

Definitely, more than a third of our questions are about employment. Whether we want to accept it or not, most of our lives revolve around work. If I do not have a job, I cannot eat. If I do not have a job, I cannot pay my rent. If I do not have a job, what happens to my children? For most South Africans, this is a major concern. Criminal matters account for around 15% to 20%, and then there are family matters, which is understandable. Most of us are in some type of relationship and have family issues that we need to deal with. The range is vast, but those are the main categories in which people experience problems.

Mmatsheko Mosito: If somebody comes to you after suddenly being retrenched, disciplined or told that their salary has been frozen I am mentioning some very serious scenarios here, what should they do first?

I think knowledge and information are the starting points. If you ask any attorney a question, the first answer will be, “It depends.” The first step is to gather information, understand your rights and know what you should do to enforce them. Let us take a practical example instead of speaking hypothetically. I have been dismissed. Suppose my employer told me yesterday, “If you arrive at work tomorrow, I am going to fire you.” I feel that this is unfair. I would go to the platform or ordinarily to an attorney and explain what happened. The attorney or My AI Lawyer would generally tell me, “Yes, you are correct in feeling that this is wrong.” But what happens next? We need to start gathering evidence. Did the employer say it over WhatsApp, or was it only verbal? Once I have the evidence, what is the next step? I may have to follow various processes. Under the Labour Relations Act, I may have to lodge a grievance to make it known that I believe I have been wronged. People often do not understand the follow-up process, and that is where things go wrong, because their actions can affect their case. In this situation, I may need to lodge a grievance and attend a grievance hearing. If I am not satisfied, I can go to the CCMA. If I resign instead, I could prejudice my own case because I followed the incorrect process. I did not remain employed and complete the paperwork; I left. Understanding your rights and what you need to do after facing a problem is therefore crucial. Unfortunately, access to justice is a general problem in South Africa. Consider someone earning the minimum wage: something happened at five o’clock last night, and the person has to go to work the next morning. They cannot simply call an attorney, and they may not have friends who can advise them. They may search Google and find general information about the problem, but nothing specific to their circumstances. With My AI Lawyer, you have a companion in your pocket. If you have a problem or feel that you have been wronged, you can use the platform and ask a question. It will tell you whether your employer’s conduct was wrong and what you need to prepare and do next to exercise your rights.

Mmatsheko Mosito: Right, and I want to delve deeper into that because, as you noted, access to legal services remains a problem, particularly in the South African context. We are going to take a break and come back to unpack how people can access My AI Lawyer. What are the requirements, and how can people use this tool to their advantage? We are answering questions about protecting your legal rights in the workplace, from salary disputes and unfair dismissals to all sorts of serious issues for which you may need legal assistance. On the line with me is Michael Visser, Head of Services I beg your pardon at My AI Lawyer.

Mmatsheko Mosito: It is 21 minutes to 10 a.m. Central African Time. We continue our conversation with Michael, Head of Services at My AI Lawyer. If you need help on the go, legal assistance with workplace disputes this is definitely a service that you may want to keep in your back pocket. Michael, take us through the steps. If I am listening now and thinking, “Oh my goodness, where was this three years ago when I needed legal assistance?”, how exactly can I use My AI Lawyer? Is it an app that I download, or how does access work?

Thanks for the question. We operate through a web-based platform and on WhatsApp. We have various packages. Of course, we understand that cost is one of the major barriers to accessing justice in South Africa, so we offer multiple plans. You can go to our website and sign up. There is also a free version with limited access. We are particularly excited about our 24-hour access option for R49, which gives you access to the platform and the option to escalate the matter to an attorney, a human being. Once you have spoken to the AI and received information, you can escalate the matter to a person who can help you strategise and say, “Okay, keep calm. This is how you need to proceed.” The great thing is that it is not about taking the human out of the loop. It is digital when you want it and human when you need it. As attorneys, we find it interesting when calls are escalated to us after a person has interacted with the service. You are not speaking to someone whom you first need to teach the law; they already understand their position, and you can discuss strategy with them, which is quite exciting. There are other options as well. If you do not want a human in the loop, it is R69 for a month’s access. Our Plus plan is R99 per month, and it gives you access to both the digital service and a human whenever you want or need them. There are multiple access points and price ranges. You can access the service through the web platform or WhatsApp. WhatsApp is useful because almost everybody uses it. It is not an app that you need to download specifically to access My AI Lawyer; we use freely available platforms that everyone can access.

Mmatsheko Mosito: That is very affordable. In fact, if you visit myailawyer.co.za, you will find all the information about pricing and the disputes that people are submitting. Let us talk about confidentiality. How do you protect my information on this platform?

That is a very important question. When people sign up, they will see that we ask for a limited amount of information, generally only a telephone number and a name or alternatively an email address and a name. When you discuss a legal matter with us, whether through WhatsApp or the web platform, the information is saved, but we do not share it with anyone. The exception is when you escalate the matter to an attorney. That attorney then reads through your record and sees the situation with which you need assistance. Security is also critical. We all know that, with the data breaches happening these days, you have to stay on top of security constantly. We de-identify information and use it only for the purpose for which it is needed, such as escalation to an attorney. Another advantage is that you retain access to your information. If you use the web platform, you have a vault. Suppose you started documenting your legal matter on 1 January, when your employer appeared somewhat angry with you. By the 10th, the employer was angrier, and by the 15th, the employer wanted to dismiss you. Your conversations with My AI Lawyer, your documents and your history are all stored securely. When action is needed, the information is ready for you to download or view and to escalate to an attorney if necessary. Data protection is extremely important. The information is not shared unnecessarily. WhatsApp is encrypted, and everything on the web platform is encrypted as well. We use Microsoft Azure and work with trusted partners because this is extremely important. We understand that people will be sharing sensitive information.

Mmatsheko Mosito: Absolutely. The last thing I would want is to complain about my boss on the platform and then find him looking at all my issues on the website. We do not want that. Thank you for the reassurance. So, simply go online to myailawyer.co.za—it is very easy to remember. As I understand it, this is a certified platform. There are payment plans ranging from a free option to a Pro package. This is essentially a platform for everyone. Do we not all need legal advice and, at times, a lawyer? I think it is wonderful that this exists and that it is affordable. Michael, thank you very much for speaking to us. We would love to have you back so that we can unpack more disputes and see how we can help people.

Thank you so much for the opportunity.

Mmatsheko Mosito: Thank you very much. Michael Visser, Head of Services at My AI Lawyer. I might just have a question or two or three or four! You can visit the platform and see which services you may want to use.